Welcome to the On/Off Interview – a semi-regular Q&A session with an experienced creative as they share what turns them on creatively, how they got to where they are today and how they’d improve their corner of creativity.
First up, we have Edinburgh-based writer, Jo Spencely.
Jo has written for BBC Scotland’s River City and is currently participating in The Writers Lab UK & Europe, Young Films Foundation 2023 and the London Playwrights Writer Development Programme.
She was selected for BBC Writersroom Scottish Voices 2023 and reached the top 3% of BBC Writersroom Open Call 2023. Jo’s plays have won the London Playwrights ‘Playclub’ and been presented at The Old Red Lion Theatre, Barons Court Theatre and The Chiswick Playhouse. She has won national and international writing competitions with her poetry and short stories, and her fiction has appeared in Popshot, Firewords and Mslexia. Jo loves to write stories and scripts that foreground women’s experiences and explore family dynamics, but always with a wry take on the world.
Hi, Jo. Firstly, what turned you ‘on’ to your creative medium in the first place?
I've always loved reading, I've always loved watching TV. As a child it’s natural to emulate what you love (or at least try to) so I can't remember a time when I wasn't writing.
What was the moment that changed your creative life?
Attending a 'scratch night' of short plays and thinking 'I reckon I could have a go at that...'
Was there any one person who helped you to move forward?
A writer I met at a virtual networking event (in the days of pandemic Zooms) who kindly sent on a script I'd written to the BBC. It ended up on a development producer's 'slush' pile; they read it and it led to my first commission.
What's the one thing you would turn 'off' about your industry and the wider creative industry?
The need to work for free - or very little money - to get opportunities, and the disappearance of the 'middle rungs' of career ladders. I mean, creative professions have never had a career ladder like the civil service, but for TV scriptwriters in the UK there were clear entry level opportunities, followed by crucial 'second step' opportunities like writing for soaps or 'story of the week' series.
With the cancellation of shows like Doctors and Holby City and the contraction of soaps like Hollyoaks and River City, the stepping-stones that served writers like Russell T Davies and Sally Wainwright are disappearing. It seems to be Catch-22 all the way: you won't be trusted with an episode or series commission until you've already written one, but how can you write one until you're given the opportunity to do so...
What tricks do you deploy to get yourself out of a rut?
To nick a well-known advertising phrase, just do it. I've learnt that the only way to beat self-doubt and creative slump is to write something - anything. I don't do Julia Cameron's 'Morning Pages' but there's something in just writing whatever's on your mind, without worrying whether it's 'good enough' for publication, that frees you up. It helps silence the inner critic and it's much easier to maintain the creative flow once you're in it!
What’s the thing you do as part of the creative process, that you hate?
Having to promote yourself. I have to really gear myself up to make those calls, send those emails, make those social media posts - but they do lead to useful contacts and opportunities.
Do you approach your creativity or art differently as a more experienced creative, and how does that manifest itself?
There's a feeling that time can't be wasted; any free time should be used for creativity. I'm better at weathering the rejections, I think, and also receiving notes - working out which ones to take on board and which to push back on. But I can also be more cynical, unfortunately, and not always as hopeful about how things might progress!
What advice would you give to someone starting out?
It's (or can be) a long game. Get ready for rejection. Always have something else 'out there' so that if/when a rejection comes you can always think 'Well the thing I've just submitted might come off'.
Enter competitions, apply for schemes but then forget about them - don't pin all your hopes on one opportunity. Keep creating - remember that you're in this because you love the process of creating, not just the rewards (whether that's recognition or money.)
And keep creating because it just takes one person to say 'I liked what you did, what else have you got?' so make sure you've always got something prepared to share with them!
What's currently pushing your cultural 'on button'?
TV Show
'True Love' on Channel 4:
I loved the way it examined both sides of a controversial topic - the 'assisted dying' debate - in the guise of a thriller. I also loved how it featured older characters who weren't just 'grannies' but had full, complicated lives - we don't see enough of this onscreen!
Book
‘Cahokia Jazz’ by Francis Spufford:
An incredible work of speculative fiction that tells a story of love, loyalty and murder. Set in an alternative history in which Native Americans hold sway in the city of Cahokia, it combines a classic detective story with a 1920s jazz sensibility and interrogates the realities of racism and the weaponisation of belief systems.
Film
‘Close’ directed by Lukas Dhont:
A film from 2022 that I saw on the BBC recently. Telling the devastating story of two boys whose relationship buckles under the pressure of High School norms, it's a masterclass in subtext and beautiful performances. Very little of the dialogue is expository, but the viewer knows what's 'really' being said or why characters aren't being honest. The central tragedy is dealt with so sparingly that it's doubly affecting.
Podcast
Young Again with Kirsty Young on BBC Sounds:
When I'm not listening to The Rest is Entertainment podcast, I'm doing the washing-up along to Young Again, not least because it shares a premise with a script I'm working on. Kirsty Young asks her interviewees what advice they'd give their younger selves, but actually it's just an excuse for a good old-fashioned in-depth chat about a person's life.
What elevates it is Young's forensic insight coupled with genuine empathy. Guests like Linda Evangelista sound genuinely taken aback and moved by Young's take on the stories they relate. Every interview has yielded a surprise. Now I want Young back on our TV screens!
Finally, give us a reason to be cheerful!
There have never been more platforms for sharing your creativity and there's never been so many people putting their creative efforts out there. It can feel crowded but it also means that whoever you are and whatever you create, there's a space and an audience for you somewhere!
Many thanks to Jo for taking part - you can find out more about her here: www.jospencely.com
Jo is also on Substack here.
Very nice morning read, inspiring and open!